Pathos Fireblade and Salvi 4One reviews...

jdv · 01-17-2012, 12:35 PM

These two footpockets are currently high in demand and considered by many to be two of the best currently on the market. Having now used both of them I felt I'd share my experience...the reviews are based on my own experience as a Freedive Instructor/judge (Full time

) where I use equipment on a daily basis for everything from my own deep dives, instructing, freedive photography and videography and working as a safety diver in our competitions:

Salvimar 4One Review | Jacques de Vos

Pathos Fireblade Review | Jacques de Vos

Hope it helps give some informative information to assist other divers in deciding...

Dan · 01-17-2012, 01:50 PM

Thank you for the reviews Jacques, they are consistent with mine and expand on other various important points.

Salvimar Salvimar Delta-one footpockets review. This is what I did with the Salvimar footpockets I bought to try. It's amazing to me how many companies are using Salvimar footpockets rebranded, in the US Persistent and Hatch customs to name a couple.

Pathos Pathos footpockets review take 2. Tendon stiffness is not only dependent on thickness, but also material. Pathos footpockets are currently at generation 3 with good moderate stiffness tendons. Generation 2 had the same thickness tendons but they were too stiff, generation 1 were too soft.

Pathos footpockets are available in the US from Pursuit Pathos Footpockets - Pursuit

jdv · 01-17-2012, 03:16 PM

Thanks Dan!

I was shocked to learn that others were just re-branding the same junk...its incredible how companies manage to pawn off something of such a low standard at such a high price.

Will keep posting reviews on all the equipment we use here..

Marco · 01-17-2012, 05:29 PM

JDV: Which blades are you using and why?

sdeisen · 01-17-2012, 10:04 PM

shame the salvimars arnt good,, they look comfy

fishon · 01-21-2012, 01:03 PM

I was surprised to read the negative review of the DeltaOnes, because my friends and I love them. I wanted to briefly add some counterpoints to JDV's well-written review and hopefully get some feedback.
One thing I wanted to address off the bat is the comfort of the footpockets. JDV eluded to the fact that comfort is quite variable depending on the individual. I would have to say, in my opinion, the Salvimar is the most comfortable footpocket, even surpassing the widely acclaimed Beuchat pocket. I never had a problem with the "horns," and in fact, they are created by a divot designed to be less abrasive to your Achilles.
Also on my mind was the stiffness of the ribs. Clearly a fin will not flex as drastically when braced by a thicker rib, but given that fact alone I am hesitant to make the statement that the pockets reduce the performance of the fin. I have had fins (Esclapez, for the record) that bend just beyond the toes (such as you would expect to happen with a soft rail) and in my judgement they were the worst fins I have ever used. I'd like to see some empirical evidence on the rails' effect on fin performance... and then if it shows I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it.
The last point you made about the Delta One pockets regarded their weight. They are heavier than all fin pockets I have tried previously, save Spettons. Intuitively, I would imagine a lighter pocket would be preferable. However, I don't think the Delta Ones are egregiously heavy. I'm not even sure they are heavy enough to affect performance. Let me try to elucidate my thought by making an analogy: you want a light toothbrush; at some weight a toothbrush simply gets too heavy to use. But a 1 oz toothbrush is not necessarily superior to a 2 oz toothbrush. Both fall below the threshold of "too heavy." Likewise with footpockets.
I just wanted to offer those counterpoints, because I really like my Salvimar DeltaOnes. Unfortunately I cannot compare them to the Pathos pockets. However I have used Spettons, Sporasub, OMER Milleniums, Beuchat, Cressi, Esclapez, and Dessault, and for me, the Salvimars come out on top. Which other ones have you used, and how do you rate them?

Dan · 01-21-2012, 02:44 PM

fishon, which blades are you using with your salvimar f/p, and what stiffness are the blades?

fishon · 01-21-2012, 03:29 PM

Carbonio GFT (the 80 cm version), med stiffness.
I have used them to dive CW 60m (200 feet) and spearfish down to 155 feet.
In deference to the reviews started here by jdv, I will post my thoughts on these fins in another thread.

Wishihadgills · 01-21-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishon

Also on my mind was the stiffness of the ribs. Clearly a fin will not flex as drastically when braced by a thicker rib, but given that fact alone I am hesitant to make the statement that the pockets reduce the performance of the fin. I have had fins (Esclapez, for the record) that bend just beyond the toes (such as you would expect to happen with a soft rail) and in my judgement they were the worst fins I have ever used. I'd like to see some empirical evidence on the rails' effect on fin performance... and then if it shows I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it.

A couple things to keep in mind with the fin rails aka tendons. One is that thicker does not always mean stiffer. The other has to do with the nature of a composite fin. The reason that fiberglass and carbon fiber blades are superior to plastic is there ability to store energy and return to their original shape. This is often referred to as the "snappiness" of a fin. Plastic fins dissipate some of the energy that goes into deforming them and also do not return completely to their original shape. This waste of energy is known as dampening and is why plastics and rubber are used as shock absorbers and bushings. To use your example of the esclapez fins. They have a very long tendon that has a lot of material. This tendon negates most, if not all, of the advantage gained from putting a carbon fiber blade in that pocket. If you look at some of the top foot pockets, like the c4 and Pathos pockets, there is little or no tendon. The pathos have a very small and flexible tendon that allows the blade to do all the work. The C4 pockets dont have a tendon at all.

As for the weight of the footpocket, its not so much that the heavier pockets are "too heavy" and more that the ultra light ones are reaalllllyyyy nice. In your toothbrush analogy you have a very short duration. Try looking at a day of spearfishing as more of an endurance race. There arent any footpockets (to my knowledge) that are so heavy that they cant be kicked by an average diver or that will make you sink. However, if you had to run a marathon would you choose a set of really heavy hiking boots, (which arent too heavy to walk in) or a set of top of the line running shoes? Also in a sport were efficiency is very important, the less energy spent accelerating a foot pocket, the more is put into moving water. It may not seem like a lot but my pursuit 90's in pathos pockets are roughly half the weight of my cressi garas and over the course of a day with a few thousand kicks it adds up.

The comfort of the pocket is completely a personal choice. I love my garas they are the most comfortable fins I have every owned but after a few dives to adjust to the carbon blades, the Pathos pockets are a close second. Initially I had a little pain because I have a high arch and the pocket is a little flat but my foot has adjusted and the pockets have been broken in a bit. They now fit and feel great.

fishon · 01-21-2012, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wishihadgills

As for the weight of the footpocket, its not so much that the heavier pockets are "too heavy" and more that the ultra light ones are reaalllllyyyy nice. In your toothbrush analogy you have a very short duration. Try looking at a day of spearfishing as more of an endurance race. There arent any footpockets (to my knowledge) that are so heavy that they cant be kicked by an average diver or that will make you sink. However, if you had to run a marathon would you choose a set of really heavy hiking boots, (which arent too heavy to walk in) or a set of top of the line running shoes? Also in a sport were efficiency is very important, the less energy spent accelerating a foot pocket, the more is put into moving water. It may not seem like a lot but my pursuit 90's in pathos pockets are roughly half the weight of my cressi garas and over the course of a day with a few thousand kicks it adds up.

I will not argue with that. The only counterpoint I would add is, which would you rather run a marathon with: a lighter shoe that does not fit well, or a slightly heavier one that is comfortable. I won't pretend to see an advantage to the added weight though.